Member Riggan
MemberForum Replies Created
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Terri, I agree with you about dogs in rural areas. It can be a very harsh environment out there. As far as no-fee adoptions, my feeling is that if a person can’t afford to pay an adoption fee, then they probably can’t afford to properly care for a dog. Even if they can afford it, if they are looking for a “free” dog, I would question whether they really have the commitment and strong desire to make that dog a part of the family and care for it “for better or worse, in sickness and in health.” A nominal fee helps weed out unsuitable adopters. That said, I am sure there are always exceptions. I would not be against an organization being able to “bend the rules” when those exceptional situations come up, but they should be pretty rare.
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It is always hard to tell what is going on just from a post, so I may be completely off base in this. I am going to be blunt here, not to criticize you or hurt your feelings but to try to help educate you and hopefully correct this situation. The impression I get is that you are pushing far too hard on the socialization and as a result, your dog is getting more and more fearful of these situations. Socialization does not mean letting lots of people pet your dog. It is about getting the dog confident in different situations and around different people. The key word here is “confident.” YOU are your dog’s advocate, and it is up to you to develop this confidence. By carefully controlling the types of situations the dog is exposed to and limiting interactions with other people to only those that are enjoyable to the dog, you teach the dog to trust that you are going to take care of them. This trust is further enhanced when you learn to recognize when you have over-faced the pup and then remove him from the situation.
It sounds to me like you are putting your dog in way too many stressful situations that are teaching him that the world is a scary place. By letting so many people pet him when by nature and breed he is not a super social dog, you are teaching him that people are scary. Since he is not able to trust you to manage these situations, he is learning that he has to take action in these situations himself, and that means using his teeth. Obviously, this is not what you want him to learn.
Also, around this age dogs frequently go through fear periods. This is part of a survival mechanism since in the wild, pups are beginning to explore their world a bit more independently without mom close by to protect them. Having a heightened fear response for a while helps prevent them from getting into too much trouble. During this period, you have to be very careful not to put the pup into scary situations since this can generate long-lasting fears of those situations.
So, how to proceed? Chill out on your socialization. Don’t take the pup into crowds or stressful situations. When you take him out, he should be your top priority and your attention should be 90% on him. Learn to watch his body language. If you decide you have made a mistake and gone a bit too far for him, leave. You’ll just need to tell your friends, family, or whoever to understand that at this point in his development, your dog’s best interests have to come first. Make sure that outings are fun for your dog, not something that has to be endured because he has no choice in the matter. There will be time later for you to take him with you to parties or other social activities.
Next, stop letting people pet him. Unfortunately, petting can easily turn into man-handling and is not at all enjoyable to the dog. Do not let people pat him on the top of the head or reach over his head. This is an extremely threatening behavior to dogs. If you want to learn more about how our human behaviors cause problems when interpreted through a canine mind, I highly recommend the book “The Other End of the Leash” by Patricia McConnell. Letting a few trusted individuals that he sees often (such as your mom) pet him is OK, but there is no reason to let strangers pet him just because they want to. You have a Belgian Malinois, not a Golden Retriever. His nature is likely going to be much more stand-offish and focused far more on you than on getting attention from other people. Yes, you want him to learn to let others handle him (such as the vet), but this is done through careful training with people you trust and who will follow instructions precisely rather than by letting random people pet him however they want.
Your pup is still young, so there is plenty of time to reverse course on this situation. Take things at his speed, which may be much slower than what you would like or expect. Make sure most of his outings are pure fun. Occasionally (maybe 1 out of 5 outings), push him just a TINY bit past his comfort zone for a brief period, and then go back to the fun stuff. Continue with your training to build your relationship with him. As he develops more trust and confidence both in his own skills / understanding of what you want and in your ability to protect the “pack”, I think you will start seeing positive changes in his reaction to the world. Good luck!
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Welcome to the group and congratulations on your new pup! The Welcome page is a good start. You can also look at the Ultimate Puppy Series under Lessons and see Robert’s first several lessons with two young puppies. These puppies have very different personalities, so pick the one closest to your pup’s. But most of all right now, have fun with the little one and give him lots of love and structure. The WHAT you teach him is not nearly as important as the HOW and consistency. Be patient and fair, use luring so that training is fun, and set the pup up for success by watching him when he is loose and crating him when you can’t watch him. Always remember that he is still a very little puppy and be patient with him. And have fun! This is a great group to ask any questions you may have, and Robert is there with the Ask Me Anything twice a week.
Riggan
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Rachel, I know exactly what you are talking about, and don’t worry. It is not aggression. It is more like a puppy temper tantrum. Just like little kids, puppies don’t know how to handle the emotions and hormones running through their bodies. Even if they might “know” what to do, they simply don’t have the self-control, and respond in the only way they know how – with their growls and teeth. My last golden grew into the gentlest, most tolerant dog I have ever known, but he was a holy terror as an adolescent. His snarling, growling, and biting (I called it his “growly face”) could be quite intimidating!
First thing is to start observing when this behavior occurs. This will both help you understand what is happening as well as give you clues on how to respond. With Jazz, I identified 4 circumstances that would kick off the “wild child” behavior:
1. When he was over-stimulated or aroused (whether from playtime, greeting a friend who came over, going to a favorite playground, etc.)
2. When he was over-tired but couldn’t find his “off” switch.
3. When something was being done to him that he didn’t like.
4. When he was faced with more pressure than he could handle (eg, when he really WANTED to do what I asked, but just couldn’t make his body obey or when he thought he was getting in trouble)
I would guess your pup is dealing with the same types of situations. So, what do you do?
1. Remain completely calm and non-reactive. Do NOT respond with anger or corrections. That will just increase the stimulation (for types 1-3) or increase the pressure (for type 4, when he is already unable to cope with the existing pressure).
2. For types 1 & 2, I would just scoop him up and place him in his crate. No anger; no cajoling. Just matter of fact. So often, I could almost SEE the look of relief on Jazz’s face, and often he would be sound asleep within a minute or so!
3. For type 3, be very calm and matter-of-fact about whatever you are doing. Don’t make a battle out of it. Often, people can get very forceful with the “No Bite!” using it as a command, and it just ramps the dog up even more. I either don’t say anything, or just a calm “Knock it off, you idiot!”. I am guessing that when you are trying to clean her feet, she is already stimulated from being outside playing. Then, when you grab her feet, she goes into over-arousal or views it as another game. If you are holding her paw, do NOT let go of it while she is throwing her tantrum. Then, as soon as she is quiet for even a nano-second, praise her and release the paw. You may not get the paw cleaned, but you are teaching her the behavior you want. If you need to, put her in the crate and then clean her paws when she has settled down. After a while, she will start realizing that the paw cleaning only ends when she is quiet. Initially, don’t even try to do all 4 paws. Progress at her rate for the paw cleaning, and continue what you are doing with handling her paws at other times when she is calm.
4. For type 4, be aware of how much pressure you are putting on her during training. Once I realized that Jazz was not being intentionally disobedient, it gave me the ability to see when I was asking more than he was able to give. Instead of getting mad or correcting him, I could back up a few steps or take a break and play for a bit. I worked with a friend whose adolescent golden would have melt-downs when out on a walk. My friend would get angry, give strong corrections to try to get Ember under control, and then would fight with her trying to get her to walk in heel position. The walks were no fun for either of them! Once I pointed out that Ember was working extremely hard to walk at my friend’s pace, but at some point could no longer contain herself, my friend was able to change her response. Instead of getting into a fight, she would hold the leash at arm’s length while Ember released all that built-up tension. Then, with a calm “Are you done? Feeling better now?”, they would continue their walk. With just a little bit of time and maturity, the behavior disappeared on its own. Even more importantly, my friend became much better at “reading” her dog and their relationship improved immensely. She became much more aware of the efforts her dog was putting into TRYING to do the right thing, and then could back off before the pressure built up to a point the dog couldn’t handle. She also found other ways to help Ember release that built-up tension, such as taking a break and having a short play session BEFORE the tantrum occurred.
Remember that your puppy is still VERY young. Be patient, calm, and consistent and you will end up with a lovely companion. Those first couple of years can be incredibly challenging, but they are also going to forge the bond between you. Good luck, and welcome to the group! Let us know you things go.
Riggan
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It sounds like there are several levels of issues here, with the muzzle being only one of them. If you are worried that your dog will bite you, then that is a relationship issue that needs to be addressed completely separately from the muzzle training. A professional trainer experienced in working with aggressive (or fearful) dogs will probably be needed. (I just looked back at some of the other posts and realized that you only recently got this dog as a rescue. It sounds like he has had a very traumatic life so far, with every reason to fear people and vets. Be patient and take your time with him. Bless you for giving him a loving home as you try to work through his issues.)
As for the muzzle training, the key is going slowly. I spent a long time making sure that Lance was comfortably putting his nose all the way into the muzzle and then keeping it there before I ever considered clipping one of the straps. I then got him used to hearing the click of the snap without even having the muzzle on him. Next step, I started clipping the muzzle strap around his neck but without having the muzzle actually on him. Then I started putting the muzzle on him and holding the strap in place but not actually fastening it. As you can see, everything was done in very tiny increments. The speed at which I could progress from one to the other depended on his response. It is also important to approach this with a “fun” attitude. If you are fearful working on it, the dog will pick this up very quickly and react accordingly. So, your first step is overcoming that obstacle. Each step is accompanied by lots of praise and high value treats. Some of the specifics will vary depending on the type of muzzle you are using, so assess your own situation and find ways to take it in tiny, slow steps.
I have no idea whether your current vet did anything inappropriate or not. If you want to look for a vet who is used to working with fearful dogs, there is a great program started by Dr. Marty Becker called “Fear Free.” They train vets (and other animal professionals) on how to deal with fearful animals. You can find a Fear Free vet or clinic by doing a search on their website: https://fearfreepets.com/resources/directory/. They also have resources for pet owners on dealing with fear issues.
Good luck and let us know how it goes!
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Michelle, I see no one has responded to this, probably because it is such a unique situation. Hopefully you have been able to make progress on this, but just in case… It sounds like you are doing all of the things I would typically do for housetraining. If you are still have problems, here are some thoughts. I have not encountered this specific situation, so it is really just brain-storming. I would guess that this little guy was imprinted early on to toilet on bedding / pee pads. Now that association needs to be broken. As an analogy, it would be like trying to get a human to pee in the kitchen and not in the bathroom. The human would understandably be very averse to doing this and might even “fake it” to get the “trainer” off their back! So how can we convince this little guy that outdoors really IS the best place to go? I might start by taking a soiled pee pad out to the area where I want the pup to go. The odor and familiar substrate might convince the puppy to actually eliminate there. Then, I would start making the pad smaller and smaller until the pup associates the grass / dirt / or whatever the surface is with toileting.
Let us know how you are progressing, and bless you for taking this puppy on and building a good life for him!
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Rene, This sounds very similar to when we brought Lance home a bit over a year ago. It was several days before my husband could even touch him. Every little movement set him off. The key for us was consistency and calmness. If Roo is interested in food, your husband might try hand feeding him. Don’t ask him to do anything for the food – just deliver to him one handful at a time. But it really just took time. For several months, we had to be extremely careful about having anything in our hands / arms when he was around. He was scared of everything (which I think was a learned survival mechanism from being on the streets). I discovered that if I set the object on the floor, he was more likely to come check it out. I did have to use the technique that Robert used with Goofy and the balloons for some things such as boxes. Over time, though, I taught him a “Check it out” cue. He learned that if I told him this, the object was safe for him to come sniff. That took a long time, though. There are still times when I have to put something on the floor first and then tell him to check it out, although the need for that has diminished rapidly.
For confidence, work on some simple obedience using all positive reinforcement with luring and shaping. Lots and lots of reward and encouragement, but I learned to keep that calm and relatively low key. If I went into my upbeat trainer mode, Lance would look at me like I lost my mind. He seemed to gain confidence when he was given a command and knew what was expected of him. This was true even for situations when I would normally keep the dog moving to reduce stress, such as when we would come across someone else on the hiking trail. For Lance, taking him a little off the trail and having him sit worked much better than keeping him moving. Movement seemed to trigger his flight instinct and then his brain was gone. Sitting allowed him to watch and actually have to think things through. So, listen to all the advice, but then watch your dog to see what works best for him. They are all individuals.
Look for and celebrate every tiny success. The times when he checks in with you without you asking him to. The times he approaches your husband to sniff him. The time something startles him and then he looks at you for guidance. As you get to know each other better, you will learn what “success” is for him. Be patient because it takes a lot of time. After 18 months, Lance has a strong trust in us and has come further than I ever expected him to, but he still surprises me at times, both with unexpected startle reactions and with sudden leaps in improvement. Within the last month, he has actually started engaging in play with us at times! He has never shown any interest or understanding of play until now. So be prepared for this journey to take a long time but it can be so worth it!
If you have any specific questions, please post them and we’ll try to address them. You are still very early in the process of developing a relationship, so don’t get discouraged. I have usually heard it said that it takes 3 months to a year for a rescue dog to really start settling in and there can be huge behavioral swings in that time. Good luck to you, and I’ll look forward to hearing about Roo’s development over the coming months!
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Your frustration and concern comes through clearly in your post. A few things to consider. First of all, if you do try the gentle leader, do NOT use it with your dog on a long line, or even at the end of a 6 foot leash. This is where the cervical injuries come from. Just think about the whiplash that can be caused by hitting the end of the leash and having your head jerked around. The canine neck structure is far more closely related to a human’s than to a horse’s. Find someone knowledgeable about the fitting, training and use of a GL before trying it.
Next, it seems like you need to take a few steps back and reassess your approach. You might try spending some time teaching the dog to offer attention to you. Start this in the home without any distractions. Have him on a relatively short leash (4-6′) and just stand there. Don’t make it an “obedience” exercise – he can be in a sit, down or standing. Initially, he will most likely be looking around at “stuff.” The instant he turns his head to you, say “Yes!” and treat. You are not saying anything to get his attention. Just waiting for him to offer it. He will start looking at you more often and quickly since there are no real distractions at this stage. If you start feeling like a Pez dispenser handing our treats, you are on the right track. As he starts catching on to the fun new game, you want him to start making eye contact with you. What you are teaching him is that looking to you is ALWAYS a good thing!
Then gradually start moving into areas with more distractions. Don’t try to go too fast. If he is unable to break his attention from whatever is around him within a minute or two, you might be getting into too high a distraction environment. The most common mistake people make when doing this is that they miss the moment when the dog starts to break off attention from the external stimulations and turn it to you. Watch him closely, and AS SOON AS he starts to turn to you, reward him. If you absolutely need to, you can try clucking with your tongue or making some other noise to encourage him to focus on you, but this should be a rare exception. Eventually you want the eye contact, but don’t expect this immediately, especially if there are distractions. Each time you move to a new place, expect that it will take a while for him to look toward you the first time, but with practice he will remember and re-engage in the game faster and faster. Be sure you have lots of little, tiny treats when you do this since you will be going through them quickly!
Once you feel he has a reasonable grasp on the game, you can start incorporating it into your walks. Walk for 5-10 minutes and then stop. Do a few minutes of the offer-attention game and then start walking again. Repeat at multiple points during the walk. What you are teaching the dog is that YOU can be just as interesting as the rest of the world out there and that paying attention to you is a good thing. Now you have him in a place where he is able to learn. It sounds like right now he is so stimulated by everything around him that you become almost non-existent. In this condition, he has no ability to learn anything, so the first step in changing the picture is to get him to a point where he can refocus on you.
Good luck, and let us know how it goes!
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Mary, I am so happy to hear that your dog is making such excellent progress and that you have formed such a strong bond. I also apologize if you felt insulted by my comments. That was not my intent. One of the limitations of online forums is that we cannot meet the individuals involved face to face to see first-hand all the dynamics.
The comment was not about you personally; rather, it is one I always make when I talk with people who are training (or considering training) their own service dog or ESA. Let me explain why (and please note that this is NOT talking about your situation). In my mind, the worst possible outcome is for someone to continue working a dog who, for whatever reason, has clearly shown that he is not suited to the intended purpose. Sadly, I have seen this happen too often because it can be hard for someone who has invested time, energy and love into a dog to be honest with themselves on whether it is working for both them and the dog. In many of these cases, the dog would be far happier being placed in a more suitable loving home. Therefore, we always talked about the potential necessity for re-homing from the very beginning, and then proceeded with all the training and work under the assumption that the dog and job would be a perfect fit. Periodic re-evaluations could then be used to assess whether everything was still moving in the right direction. In all cases, the welfare and happiness of the dog was paramount.
From what you have said, your pup has come a long way very quickly (btw, what’s her name?) and is already providing much of what you were hoping for. Puppies present us with lots of challenges as well as lots of love and laughs. You are in a great place here to get suggestions on how to handle some of the challenges both from Robert and other members. You sound like an incredibly strong woman, so I have no doubt you will get through the dreaded “teenage” period successfully. Fortunately, the worst aspects don’t last long, and I think all dog owners look back on those puppy years with fondness. Once you get to the other side, you’ll have a loving and loyal partner who may also be able to help you in other unexpected ways. We look forward to celebrating your successes, large and small, with you.
Best wishes,
Riggan -
LOL – no wonder he can’t control himself!