[Cameron]

It sounds like he’s demanding attention, so giving him attention (ie walking, etc) would be reinforcing this behavior (anything that doesn’t stop a behavior, reinforces it).

The best solution to this is the place command. I have a malinois that’s similar. He will demand attention and play all day, if he doesn’t have anything to do. The solution is to give him a job, and that’s the place command. He’s obeying while staying in his bed, which helps him focus, and gives me the break.

Robert has many videos on bed/place/stay. My method is pretty simple and works well. Start by luring (Robert covers this well) and when they know to go to the bed, then go and reward them with increasing duration between rewards. Soon, move to remote rewards (recall them for the reward and back to bed/place).

An easy way to practice is when watching TV. Send the dog to their place while the show is on, then break and give affection during commercials, sending them back to bed when the show resumes. You’ll see progress VERY quickly.

The important part is corrections. If they break the stay (and that’s what they broke, they didn’t break a down or go to bed, because they completed those tasks), then slowly return them to their place under pressure (I use dominant dog collars and apply some pressure).

How much pressure? It’s really easy. Start where you’re comfortable. If they break the stay, it’s not enough so increase it until they stop breaking the stay.

Some tips: Never chase the dog. Never say “No” or anything until you have the leash. NEVER be in a hurry back, the walk back to the place should suck for the dog so they don’t want to break the stay. Do not reward when you get them back. A short leash pop and STAY. At first, don’t wait too long to reward but increase the wait time.

Work the place/stay at home, when that’s good, do it outside in your yard, then other places (only where you can correct). This is the key to a stable, enjoyable dog. Just one persons opinion.

[Cameron]

Kamil, you’ll find responses like this everywhere in dog training. Some have bits of helpful information others are just vitriol. I stopped posting here for this reason.

Despite the poor tone, Donna was correct that you need to earn the dogs respect. I’m not saying you haven’t tried, or even that you’re not on your way. Having the dog respect you isn’t something that happens overnight, and with a puppy its something you need to keep proving as they get older and bolder.

Using your couch example, he keeps getting on the couch despite you not wanting it. This is likely because his desire for it exceeds the correction he gets from it. It could also be that the interaction of him getting up and the attention he gets from you scolding him is still better than not doing it.

The foundation of the dogs I train is the down stay. It’s simple but valuable and helps in situations like this. I start the same way everybody does. Lead the dog to the bed and down them and reward, increasing duration and leaving the dog, then sending the dog and increasing duration and distance and moving to intermittent reward. Pretty standard stuff.

Where handlers start to differ is what they do when the dog breaks the stay, and they will – especially a malinois puppy! If you say NO and gently lead them back, put them in a down, say good boy and reward them, what happened is he trained you to reward him! There was no consequence for breaking the stay, in fact he was rewarded for it.

I use dominant dog collars almost exclusively, especially for this kind of thing. If the dog breaks the stay and runs away, I SLOWLY approach the dog without saying anything. Be patient, if they’re running, DO NOT chase because that’s a game and a reward. When you get the leash, apply pressure up and SLOWLY walk back to the bed. Very slowly. This walk back should be unpleasant. Put them in a down and give a final leash correction with NO STAY and walk away. Don’t wait too long before returning and rewarding lavishly.

If they break the down again, he just told you that your correction wasn’t enough because the crime was worth the punishment. Repeat the correction but apply more pressure, let him walk on his tip toes and walk even slower and apply a stronger correction when they’re back in the down. Walk away, but don’t wait too long before returning and rewarding lavishly.

Never apply corrections when you’re frustrated. Mals are quite sensitive and some are extremely handler sensitive. My trial dog is an absolute monster on the field but if I raise my voice, she shuts down. When working obedience in the presence of a decoy, I can use leash corrections until my arm fell off and she’ll blow it off. The ecollar is a little more effective but not nearly as effective as rasing my voice. The only corrective words in my down stay example that I use is “NO STAY” (because its the stay they broke). I say it clearly but not yelling and with no anger. I want them to associate the correction with the behaviour they broke.

Use these same measures to keep them off the couch. Ideally, you have a dog bed in the room and teach them that when in this room, they must go to the bed and stay there unless you release them or they hear something unexpected (I will have somebody go outside and pretend to try to break in, the dog will break the stay and investigate and I will reward that to teach them that it is acceptable to break the stay for this).

Any correction that does not stop a behaviour, reinforces it.

Keep it up. Raising a mal, especially your first, is a learning experience. You’ll have ups and downs, but they are incredibly rewarding to train and the bond between a well trained malinois and their handler is stronger than any other (in my obviously biased opinion).

You may also have a higher drive dog and are not working them enough. Mals especially need mental stimulation. I recommend scent work for mals. They’re good at it, and because of their leap before you look mentality, it’s quite possible your dog will be injuring in it’s life time and you need something low impact to occupy them as they recover. Scent work can do that. It can be as simple as using some fresh herbs in a cup and hiding it in a room, or make some scent boxes and make them indicate on the correct one. Do scent work at meal time, feeding when they indicate. It’s fun – and cool to show off when your friends are around.

Finally, to the inevitable hateful comments that come to me: Save your time, I don’t care. If you don’t like my method, don’t use it. If you have something constructive, even if it’s pointing out my mistakes, please share. The day I think I know it all is the day I accept mediocrity.

[Cameron]

I thought I was ready for a mal after years of breeding and raising Dogos, but i wasn’t. They’re unique. Your schedule looks good to me. I’d advise that you get into some sport, something that gives both of you a job together. They need that purpose. They can be very handler sensitive but they do need you to set absolute boundaries. Young, they’re so cute you can’t imagine discipline or corrections, but you’ll pay dearly later if you don’t.

I’d also recommend doing as much environmental work as you can, and consider how and where. I think dog parks are a terrible idea (my opinion). If your dog has a bad interaction with another dog, just one, it can create fear and aggression towards dogs (this one I learned the hard way). Take them out to stores (Home Depot, etc). Let them interact with people as they’re young, but taper that off as they get older. Many people are intimidated by an adult mal rushing them, even if it is just for a greeting.

I’m also a big believer in the dominant dog ‘slip’ collar for mals. I don’t find the prongs nearly as beneficial in most cases (again, my opinion). I think ecollars can be useful, used correctly as a training tool. I don’t want to rely on the ecollar the dogs entire life, or lose control when they aren’t wearing it or the battery dies. I try to use it to teach, then wean off and proof without it. I can’t use an ecollar during trials so they have to work without them anyway.

Touch them during training. I’ve found physical manipulation during training helps them trust you. I’ve seen a number of police dogs bite their handlers at police certification and trial events because the dog wasn’t used to it (Often when the dog needs to be shouldered to go up a ladder). These situations are more intense than pet owners, but the principle remains. Touching the dog to manipulate them into a correct heel, or sit, etc desensitizes them and shows them you can be trusted. My youngest mal loves being touched by me or my son. I can carry her on my shoulder, lift her up, whatever, as can my son. My wife did no physical manipulation and the dog doesn’t trust her (she likes her, but love and trust aren’t the same thing).

Depending on your goals, you may consider this next part. I don’t let my mals self gratify. This means there are no toys left out. They get lots of time with tugs and toys, but only with me. They learn that all good things come from me and that they need my approval for these things. My youngest is just learning this during bite work: You want to bite the decoy, well the only way you get that is from me. It’s been a hard lesson for her, but she’s starting to realize that looking at her target won’t allow her to get it, but looking to me for a nod will. I think she knows this, but is struggling with internal conflict (but she’s getting it).

If you take one thing away from my post: Set boundaries and establish yourself as the one in charge.

[Cameron]

I wanted to update my response on the ‘bonker’ and the trainers that used it.

I think it helped break the cycle where he reacted without thinking or my ability to redirect or stop it. Past that, I think it can actually re-cause the behaviour. The bonking startles the dog, giving us a chance to interject our wishes. It also scares them, which I fear could lead to more fear-based behaviour (which in my case is what the reactivity is).

After the second class with the bonker, the trainers were telling me to bonk HARD for even the most minor infraction. I see the reasoning, but I found it faulty in my cases. An example, Athos (my Mal), gave a half bark that dwindled and he looked at me before it was over. To me, he’d realized this was an undesired behaviour and corrected himself. I wanted to praise this and they wanted to bonk it. I couldn’t reconcile and sought further advice where I found a fantastic trainer (who has 3 other partners and all have Mals from my breeder!) He’s agreed that Athos does not require severe corrections. A simple NO at regular volume and a minor leash pop and he gets the message. More grandiose corrections will shut him down.

We are working in a very positive method – but not positive only. In the 2 sessions I’ve done, I have given 3 small leash corrections and tons of treats. The effects are simply undeniable in just 2 sessions. In the last week the only dogs Athos reacts to are ones that lunge or bark at him and I’m able to redirect him to me. We’ve passed dogs that were a big problem before.

The problem isn’t solved, but we’re on the right track. I can see him becoming less frightened or startled each day.

The other big change I made is not feeding from the bowl. All his food comes from my hand (something Robert recommended in his puppy videos but I’d stopped). This has made an huge impact in how fast I’m progressing this week.

[Cameron]

I’ve got an 11 month old reactive Malinois that was similar to what you describe. Very little worked, and nothing reliably. I would gain some ground, only to lose it again in a situation I thought we’d covered.

I’ll second other comments about finding a decent trainer. I’ve gone through a number that were less than useless. I found a place a few hours from me that was recommended and it helped – to a point. I just found the trainer that I think will solve this only yesterday.

The one thing that helped significantly was a technique they called ‘bonking.’ It’s controversial certainly, but I was at my wits end. My Mal would see a dog and immediately go to redline. Prong corrections, e-collar, food, yelling, nothing worked reliably and most set him off more.

The ‘bonker’ is an empty windshield washer fluid bottle with some pebbles in it and they would throw it near the dog. I just gave it a good shake. It was the violent sound that shocked him out of his head. He hated it, was scared of it, but stopped reacting and looked at me. It took 7 times using it, following a very serious NO.

We’re not done yet. My Mal is still nervous in new situations and I’m working on building his confidence where the bonker has no place but it did break the cycle. Just this morning I walked past a reactive GSD in his yard. I had my guy in a heel and he didn’t react until we were right next to him. His reaction was a single bark and I had a sharp NO ready for him, where he stopped, looked at me and never broke the heel. This happened 3 times as we passed.

As I said, the problem isn’t solved but those reactions were dramatically reduced. Most impressive was that he didn’t appear afraid. I corrected verbally without breaking stride and when we passed completely and he finished with no reaction, I praised the heck out of him. I was very proud!

So, I can’t say that the ‘bonker’ is a good idea in every case and maybe there was a better way for me, but I couldn’t find it. I will update with the trainer I’m working with now (who, coincidentally has my dogs half brother who’s starring in the TV show See with Jason Mamoa apparently. He knows Mals and my dogs line intimately, so I really lucked out, finally!)

[Cameron]

I’m not very familiar with Berners, so can’t comment on that but I think this behavior can occur in any breed. I believe it’s us as owners and handlers that create the behaviors inadvertently. The smarter the dog, the easier they learn how to get what they want.
I believe it’s important not to try to tire the dog out to get calm behaviour. Robert made a video I watched years ago where he said he trained the dog before walking or tiring them out because he expected the behavior regardless of the dogs energy level. That message stuck with me.

I’ve also realized that the ‘tire them out’ method is ultimately self defeating here. If you walk your a dog 1 mile every day to tire him out, eventually you’ll need to walk 2 miles to tire him out, and then 3. As he gets fitter, he’ll need more and you’ve essentially achieved the opposite of your goal.

Some dogs just don’t know what to do with themselves. They need to be busy working.

I have 2 mals. My 4 yr old Dutch KNPV line boy and a 2 yr old Belgian Joe Farm line PSA girl. My girl has a much higher drive but she can chill out with me. My boy simply cannot. Without direction, he spins out of control. After working and walking the dogs in the morning, I make a coffee. My girl will sit down, or wander around the yard while I drink it. My (lower drive) boy will bark at me demanding we work (since I’m OBVIOUSLY not doing anything important), so I need to put him in a down stay to calm him. He will maintain his stay for an hour or more, but if I release him, he goes right back to demanding. My girl will chill out, but if I say, “lets go to work,” she’s up and vibrating, ready. Your dog may be like my boy, and need the structure of a ‘job.’

I think there’s a few lessons here in your post that are beneficial to many, myself included:

Tiring your dog won’t fix this kind of thing.

Giving into your dog teaches them that they can manipulate you, and you can’t fault them for learning something you taught them even if it was accidental.

Some dogs can’t just chill, and it’s not always the ones you’d expect. You may not be able to teach them to chill, but you can teach them to behave.

[Cameron]

The touching I was referring to is during training. I’m very affectionate with my dogs and don’t see a problem with it at all. My trial dog is super affectionate. I spend 5 minutes every morning giving her a rubdown and affection and she loves it, but she can never get enough especially during training! During trials we can only reward with praise and affection and she jumps into my arms loving it. So I don’t know if you can be too affectionate.

A possible downside to that may be separation anxiety. My girl is very attached to me, but my lifestyle allows for that. She’s with me almost always. You’d need to judge that in your situation.

Dogs do associate places with activity. If you start playing fetch in the den, he’ll expect to always be able to play fetch in the den. That could be a mistake since you may not be able to relax in your den.

I don’t allow my dogs to self gratify. Their food, toys, treats and fun come from me. I work them 3-5 times a day in addition to a walk. Work sessions are short, at 6 months old, they should be 3-5 minutes long. You want the dog excited and stop the session before they fade, and end on a good note where possible.

At 6 months, I want the dog learning but I want them excited. I incorporate a lot of rewards and play.

Look at protection sport dog trials on youtube and watch their obedience and see how fast the dogs sit or down. It’s amazing! They do it because they’ve learned that the faster they do what the handler wants, the sooner they get what they want.

Here’s a position drill I work with my dogs early. I set the ecollar set to 1 or 2 (I use a Chameleon for reference and 1 is 1miliamp) and I grab a tug that the dog likes. I get them excited and make them miss a few times (tease the dog and pull the tug away just before they get it. They’ll get more excited.) Then say SIT and hit the stim at the same time. When they sit, the stim stops instantly and half a second later I mark it (Yes/Break whatever your terminal marker is) and then reward with the tug and play enthusiastically. This builds drive and speed in the behaviour and the love doing it because they get paid to do it! Repeat this a few times and stop while they’re still super eager. Next time they will start eager and build.

This is how I get explosive, eager behaviour.

My older boy doesn’t care much for physical affection or praise when working. He’s working for his reward, be it food or toy. You can tell him what a good boy he is and he does not care at all. Show him his reward and he’ll start to shake with excitement.

Does your trainer work with a lot of mals? If not, you might want to look for another one. They are different. You don’t need to restrict them from anything so they’ll want to work – they’ll want to work until they drop!

The above drill is fun to work. Add down, stand, do multiple positions. Don’t do too much without reward though! You can use this for focus heeling too. I will get the dog in the heel position on my left side with the tug on the dogs left side. They don’t get it until they make eye contact with me. I get the look and reward. Eventually extending it. I’m prepping for a trial next week and did the entire heeling routine with the tug next to her and she ignored it, knowing that if she looks, she won’t get it. Also knowing it’s there was like dynamite for her and she pranced through the whole routine.

I spend a lot of time working the out (which is second to the down stay to me). I do it with play. Throw a ball or frisbee, whatever they like. They bring it back and don’t want to let go. I say OUT and pull another one (Robert does the live ball/dead ball game in one of his videos) and the one I have is more desirable so they drop it, and as soon as they do, I throw the first ball. Eventually, I take the second ball away. I’ll incorporate a heel, positions, basic stuff and the reward is that I throw the toy. I do this every day, usually in the morning and evening. It’s their fun time, they hardly know they’re training because they’re having fun.

[Cameron]

Good advice.

To help clarify because I was confused with terms engagement, respect, etc when I started.

Engagement is needed and I think the OP has good engagement from what he says and he is hand feeding. Without engagement, you have nothing. This is step 1.

Respect is often used, but I rarely see the word trust, which is vital in a working dog and important to pet dogs too.

Take a look at Nino’s STSK9 videos. There’s killer engagement, hard to find more engaged dogs anywhere. What you’ll see in many of those videos is the dog being lured. Will the dog perform without the lure or among distraction? I do think Nino himself trains his dogs to work through distraction, but that part gets lost sometimes. I’ve seen followers of his do great things until their treat pouch is empty, then nothing.

Obedience is not optional. If I give a command, the dog must perform it (after having learned it certainly). For example, if one of our dogs is deployed on the street and there is gunfire, and the officer orders the dog to down, it MUST down! If your pet is chasing an animal into the street and you see a car coming, you order it to down, it MUST down!

We use an obstacle course to help with trust. This is not agility, it’s designed that the dog cannot do it alone. It builts the k9/handler team and trust. The dog will fall, and learn to trust that the handler will catch him. If the handler orders the dog through a tunnel, it must go through. We start with bigger tunnels that are easy and get to smaller ones that no dog wants to go through the first time and need a nudge to go, but they’ve established trust in the handler that they can do it (and they trust the handler more at the end).

Something that I find increasingly rare these days is physical manipulation, such as physically manipulating the dog into a down, or heel, etc. At one police k9 certification event, one excercise was carry the dog on your shoulder up a ladder. Many handlers got bit by their own dogs! These are trained police K9’s, but the ones that bit had very little physical manipulation.

[Cameron]

A mal is a handful, even for an experienced handler, but with dedication nothing is impossible.

I respect your attitude toward correction and I agree with it. In the absence of experience, use caution. In my example, you start with a milder correction and if the dog keeps breaking the behaviour, you increase the pressure. The dog will tell you when you get it right – he’ll stop breaking the behaviour! You may have to give what you consider a severe correction, but you should only have to do it very few times. What is severe to you, may not be to him. My reactive boys thresholds for everything are way higher than my other dog.

Another thing to keep in mind is that thresholds change depending on circumstance. Using ecollar for example. In your back yard, you might use a level 3 (of 18 on my collar) and get results, but in a park around other dogs, that could go much higher. I’ve used ecollar to help with an out, and level 5 will get her outing a tug in the yard. A decoy that’s not moving (ie when we’re practicing out and keeping adrenaline low) might be an 8/9. If the decoy runs at her or away from her, the level is higher than I will stim a dog to out (I don’t want negative feelings on a bite that may make them hesitate), so I have to lift off (and then keep working).

Mals seem to be all over the place when it comes to corrections. The more engaged or amped up, the easier they blow off corrections. Keep that in mind. You’ll get the hang of it quicker than you think, just don’t go overboard.

[Cameron]

Thanks! I’ll do some searching first!