[Bill]

Hi Felix. Living in a downtown Metropolitan area I can relate. Your trainer likely had you using a shorter leash, ie: traffic lead, in crowded situations as you don’t want people getting tangled up in a lead if the dog gets farther away from you.

Regardless of collar choice, though I would submit the prong collar is a collar of choice for me but I also double rig my protection K9 with both a prong and a flat collar with an ecollar holder built in so I have what I need for any situation.

First – when you notice your dog is starting to fixate/stare at something – this is the time you take action. Once the dog is locked-on/engaged you will have the issues you are seeing. The very moment you notice the fixation as evidenced by the dog’s posture changes and intent staring, as the handler you already know what is about to happen – you need to interrupt that fixation and relieve the stress. You will turn to go away from the “target” and keep moving if you can. When the dog is in motion they are more easily able to release their stress and reset. Once dog’s composure is regained, turn back around and continue. The pop/correction to the collar need only be enough to signal you are going the other way. If you build in one more handler skill, that will be to not look back at the dog to see its reaction so as not to let them know you did that to them – instead they are left to wonder – wow – what happened, I better follow handler. You already know if they are at the other end of the leash they are coming with you.

By standing steadfast you are allowing the dog’s fixation to intensify and you may be contributing to the increase in intensity. By walking down the lead yourself the dog is still engaged and not able to adjust. By walking down the lead to a dog that is pulling away, you are letting him know the harder he pulls, you will eventually follow – which as you noted, is not what you want.

This is hard in crowded areas with lots of people. If you can practice in a park or somewhere where you can control the interactions as you develop your leash handling it will be easier for you to develop new skills to help your dog when they get fixated on something. As handlers, not only do we transmit messages and commands, we also communicate emotions to our dogs. Loose leash = handler is happy and not feeling stress. Tight leash = handler is feeling tense so dog heightens “awareness” because if you are tense, so he should be too. This compounds when you as the handler can sense/see the dog is getting fixated, you know what’s about to happen and you naturally want to tighten your hold and shorten the leash for control as a responsible owner, which also contributes in the communication to the dog and may actually intensify the undesirable behavior.

In lieu of a traffic lead, you could use an 8′ leather lead and tie 4-6 knots spaced out in the lead. This allows you to more easily have enough grip on the lead so it does not slip through your hands and you can hold the knots in varying places automatically adjusting the length of the lead to maintain the desired proximity of the dog without gripping the lead so tight to keep it from slipping.

Hope something here gives you some ideas of things to consider/try. As you continue moving about in crowded areas your dog will surely pick up on your signals though there will always be something that pops up but your experiences together will help. Be consistent. Be calm. Enjoy.

[Bill]

Hi @MattandJean – Sounds like you have a handful; good news is there are lots of experienced people on RC to offer food for thought as you develop and work on a strategy. From the things mentioned in your post, clearly the biting and nipping, and demanding treats are hurdles. Looking at the similarities in the two, it seems the dog is making demands and delivering its version of consequences when the humans are not doing what the dog wants. Really good news is that by working on this now, as you are, you will get to enjoy great years ahead. A couple things may be helpful. To successfully work with your dog/puppy, you need to work them in the stage they are in.

Tackling the easiest first, it seems your puppy is VERY food motivated and therefore acknowledging that, you use treats/food to lure and shape. In early training when food worked, I found the “moist/soft” varieties effective for several reasons, easier on developing teeth, small and quick to ingest, and because they are moist my dog wasn’t inhaling/coughing on the dust as he did from hard, crunchy treats. (I believe there are some options in RC’s “shop”)
ANY, EVERY, and ALL demands for treats from the puppy should be ignored. Opportunistic, your puppy is likely to continue behaviors that get it what it wants. You may already be seeing how bright your puppy is when you are using treats because the puppy focuses on the treats any may even nudge the pouch to let you know it’s time for another one – do not give in. If you periodically “give in” you are incidentally reinforcing the protest.

Biting/Nipping at you. It is logical to conclude, just say no. Without a firm foundation and understanding of no – you likely see the behavior continue, or worse, escalate. As you may still be working on developing the effective no, try delivering it more firmly and loudly than you normally do. If you can, deliver that firm, louder and direct “no” as instructional – without emotion. If you have developed other obedience commands/skills you can consider following up with what you want the dog to do instead. The most important piece initially will be stop the behavior. Using pitch and stress with the “no” may add the emphasis needed until you have time to develop the firm foundation with/for “no”. There are many strategies you could try – the best one will be the one that makes sense to you that you can delver and follow up on without exception.

Not all dogs are cuddlers. In fact, my GSD is not. By hugging, you may be invading the dogs space and it becomes anxious. As you mention petting inside seems to get the puppy in action – what you may be seeing when you are petting and showing affection – which results in the puppy wanting to play may actually be your puppy going in motion to relieve stress. In lieu of hugs and doting over the puppy, your puppy may prefer structure. While you may “feel” like you are not showing affection, in fact, you are. Providing structure helps dogs be happy dogs and assures them they are part of your pack. They simply need to know what you want them to do. (Yes, easier said than done!)

Hope something here helps or triggers an idea for you as you make adjustments to help your puppy know what it takes to be a member of your family/pack.

[Bill]

Hi @saul –

As @cara shared her epiphany I can relate as our experience in this regard seems very similar. My “interrupter” to what I was doing came during a training session. I will tape training sessions occasionally because I want to see the effect(s) of what I am doing/saying and see the overall interaction between me and my dog while training and what we both need to work on. Early on I could see the hesitancy I felt at the time on the video. I was distracted trying to recall what I was supposed to technically do and in what sequence. To my style, I had to come up with a way I could implement what I had learned to be the correct way to do things and make it natural to me in order to be consistent, free flowing and meaningful/purposeful in my communications. Loooong story shortened, I initially boiled it down to simply:

1.) Commands (what I want him to do)
2.) Reinforcer (He’s doing what I want or making progress)Bridge
Various intonations of: yes YES YYEEESSSSS YYYYEEEESSSSSS!

3.) Sustain the behavior (I need to communicate/encourage “you get it, keep doing it!”)
good GOOD goooooooooood GOOOOOOOOOOOOD!
4.) Correct errors
no NO NO! NOOOOO!

5.) Once the command or sequence is complete – now dog’s choice
FREE (This is the only place I use FREE)

In my training vocabulary I am using variations of yes/good as noted above so I can’t intermix them to mean the dog is done, now its fun time, release, or whatever.

Once I got used to my new routine, it was natural to me. Then on review of tape, I noticed my “interactions” were flat/instructional/devoid of inflection. I noted quicker up take of concepts when I showed emotion in the instruction or command (Actively engaged). So I worked on being more animated and involved when giving commands, reinforcers, corrections and thus you see the various forms of the words you see above.

When I am using good, I will also intersperse reference to the command issued. Good fuss/heel. Good Sitz/Sit. Goooood Platz/Down and when I give a heartfelt GOOOOOD PLATZ I can almost see him smile. He is working for me and to please me – when I let him know he’s really got it right – he can’t wait to do it again. He will continue to do what brings reward – praise, encouragement, and the needed corrections as appropriate. Once this was natural to my training regime, it was easy to add on when a new concept was needed.

Likely the most helpful thing to me was giving myself permission to internalize what I had learned to be the correct way to train so I could make it my own and I no longer had to recall/remember a sequence because it was now natural to me.

Thanks for the opportunity to offer my experience – it was fun to look back on it – hope something is helpful to you in your journey.

[Bill]

Hi @charliesl45yahoo-com – The video @alin posted is a good discussion of what the neutrality looks like when a trained protection dog will “respond/alert/defend”, … how a K9 discerns threats. In addition to what it represents, it does not get in to how you get the dog to the point it will work as the dog in the video. This specialized training, done with the wrong dog, or in the wrong manner, could be catastrophic for the dog. The dog’s lineage, imprinting, and early conditioning contribute greatly to its ability to perform and be unshakeable AND reliable as a protection dog.

As you are working towards protection, you are wise to be cautious that something you do now does not inadvertently suppress the dog’s ability to progressively transition to a working protection K9 if it has the required temperament which is why your question is a great one. As you will note in the video, the decoy does not put on a sleeve… same guy, same time frame, same interaction – the only difference is his “intent”. Humans give off a phermone when contemplating something “undesirable.” This is hard to replicate without a professional decoy. I offer a couple ideas from an obedience stand point that may help with the specific situation as you described.

If you already have a solid “platz/down” … when you discern something as non threatening – but your dog is barking for some reason – you could command the platz/down which means everything stops, including barking. (This is where it gets dicey if you are thinking about full protection training). Alternatively, since you know there is no threat, if the dog is barking; you could opt to go in motion, and move away from the person, have the person stand still and wait, and then re-approach and see if that interrupts the barking. Assuming the dog is on a heel/fuss command, with a proper sit when motion stops, you may be able to approach the person vs the person approaching you, and have a conversation with no barking. If this is a person you do not know and your dog is alerting – this is where reading and trusting your dog becomes critical. You may see a nice person in front of you asking for directions or lunch money and your dog is able to detect that phermone and is letting you know this person intends to take your wallet/phone or whatever as soon as you take them out.

Robert has a video, something like Down In Motion. This is an excellent strategy, pre-protection, because in protection, you will go the the next level and then you must be able to stop the dog on a dime and get some change even if it is in full out pursuit. The handler & K9 relationship and desire are critical. Obedience is compulsory.

While many, one of the final tests we had to pass was after @ 30 minutes on the sleeve with 3 decoys, we were required, off leash, to approach the 3 decoys who were still in full gear and chaotic, approach them head on and get within 18 inches of them, do an about face – and with no commands – walk away with no contact, not even a bark. Bringing this back to your original question…. the decoys had no negative intentions this time – same behaviors – same bite suits – but no negative intention phermones so the dog rightfully should not hit on them.

I hope something here is of some value as you continue your journey. I enjoy reading your contributions to the site and look forward to more. Regards and see you around RC site.

[Bill]

Hi Cara – I have a 5.5 years old Protection GSD K9. I use the Dogtra. Currently I am using the RT Extreme model. Having tried several, it is my opinion that the Dogtra is reliable and effective. I use the “long” contact points on my GSD. You simply unscrew the contact points from the unit and screw on the longer ones. Additionally, you can find the points on Amazon or wherever. I am currently using a unique flat collar with a built-in carrier for the e-collar. I too like a more concealed holder for the ecollar and have been using this special design collar from Ray Allen. With the extended contact points – this collar scheme works very well for me.

[Bill]

Hi Lee – I feel your pain. As I waited for my GSD’s flight to arrive and did my research I knew the crate was supposed to be a safe place for the dog and that I should do nothing to make the crate anything but a positive place for my GSD (now 5.5 years old). After his arrival and our integration period, it was time for him to go to the crate. Day 11 – gave the command and he went to the crate like a rockstar. Then day 12 arrived, gave the command for the crate and nothing. Tried walking him to the crate – he wasn’t having it. Stressed and perplexed, I called the breeder and training team the next morning and told them of my problem (didn’t know about RC at that time). I knew I was not supposed to make it a negative experience and what was I to do? I was told that this was an easy fix and would be resolved as soon as we got off the phone. Long story short, it was an easy fix. By the time they got done telling me that going to his crate was not an option and that no matter what, when I gave the crate command – he was going in and that was that. Emboldened by this new found confidence after I got off the phone with them, I gave the command with the full knowledge that he was going in the crate…. and he did. The difference for me was, I knew it was a safe place, I knew he was going in, and therefore the confidence with which I directed him to the crate communicated to him this was not a negotiable – he went in like a rockstar, no problem.

As to the whining and desire to be out with the rest of the pack, it is critical that whining does not precede getting out of the crate. The dog must be calm and quiet before exiting the crate and opening the door does not mean, run free. Opening the door means, the dog waits for the release command and then the dog exits.

Getting there may be a challenge. You may have to work in short periods of time being consistent in not letting the dog out when it is whining. You have to wait for a quiet period and then praise and release the dog so there is no connection between whining and getting out of the crate. As you know the crate is a safe place, and assuming the dog is not sick or needing to relieve itself, there is no need for whining. For me, this was a mindset change. While in the crate I knew he was not sick or injured, should not need to relive himself, therefore I can ignore the whining. I did, it worked.

When your dog is whining in the crate while in the car and you say, “Hey, Hey” those interrupters work to interrupt the dog’s “complaints/protests”. Follow up when the dog calms – mark the desired behavior and you should see more of it and for longer periods of time until one day you forget it was ever an issue. All the best in your journey – when today’s crate behavior is better than yesterday’s you will know you are on the right track.

[Bill]

Hi Nomad – that happened early on with my GSD. In general I think it is best to leave the dog alone while eating. In a pack situation, the pack leader does not go back to the kill to eat from lower ranking dog’s allocated food. In human world, resource guarding can be a problem as you experienced. Snapping at you is never an option. As you can’t snap back – I would defer to oldSAP-Charlie’s response, if that occurs, in most situations. My feeding routine is…. humans eat first, no exceptions over the last 5.5 years – dog goes to his place and patiently waits. At first I told him to go to his place, now it is automatic – as soon as we sit down, he goes to his place. When I grab his bowl – the feeding routine (whatever it is) begins. Having a routine for feeding, more than plunking down a bowl of food, makes it an event. We all know the rules, and we all follow them. It has worked well for us.

[Bill]

I have a working protection trained GSD likely similar to Questar in terms of barking. My protection trainers said that in order to discourage – stop unwanted barking you had to first teach him to bark on command (think bark and hold). Once you can command the dog to bark, you can then teach “quiet” or whatever term you want. To encourage the desired barks – praise the dog for the desired bark and command the “quiet” when you have been alerted. To encourage/learn the bark for a thing, first you build the frustration in the dog for the object by keeping it just out of reach until the dog barks and he then gets the thing. Harness the dog and attach the leash to the harness so there is no strain on the neck. Have the second person present the desired object just out of reach of the dog, the handler commands the bark and the teaser keeps it just out of reach…. once the dog barks for it – the dog gets the object. Continue building from one bark to multiple barks and then continuous should you desire that. Once the dog masters the bark on command using a frustration strategy – do the same thing untethered. Alternatively, you can attach a bungee line to the harness and the other end to a fixed object and you, the handler, can do the entire exercise on your own.

Once you have him barking on command, either on a long line, or if obedient without leash, place the object on the ground out a ways in front of you – command the bark, command the “quiet” when quiet release the dog to go get the object. Once he has mastery of bark on command, and quiet, you can then use the quiet at any time he is barking because he knows what it means.

Hope something here is helpful as you consider your strategy. CONGRATS on the new dog!!

[Bill]

Hi @felixfinchgmail-com Glad you caught RC’s comments on “positioning” in the heel. As you have established a heel – and as you don’t necessarily need her in the tight position – this is the time you can make some adjustments. While we use many positions and commands with protection K9s which are not necessary in a companion situation – there are some things you may find helpful and actually stress relieving.

I would encourage you to stick with your heel command – heel means, heel. This is critical for safety and you can use it in so many ways to prevent issues. I note you are working on issues related to grazing while the dog is wandering about. Here’s where maintaining your tight heel is helpful – you are walking and you note up ahead some discarded food items that you know will be enticing to your dog. Call the dog to heel – the dog won’t be able to get to that food item – you’ve avoided the problem. When you don’t notice the item in advance and you note the dog’s interest – you can give your leave it but I would guess that may still be a little hit and miss. If you call her to heel – and she reliably complies – while the leave it may still be developing, the heel gets her next to you. Once in position – if the dog did/does have the item – with the close proximity to you – issue your leave it/drop it / phooey, whatever – like you mean it. It avoids you chasing after the dog to keep it safe which the dog may look at as a game (this is also why RC suggests you never play chase games with your dog where you chase the dog- you don’t want it to become a game.) Use your training technique/style to reinforce the out/leave it/ drop it / phooey.

Having an alternative “position/proximity limiter” to heel – you are able to define the area within which the dog is free to be. If you allow heel to be sloppy and “close is good enough”, you take away the safety of the heel, that safety is being in close proximity to you and generally focused on you. You have the dog’s attention (focus) now let it know what you do want it to do instead.

You are now ready for a new “gear” in your walks – this is easy to do because the leash will do all the work when needed and the dog will quickly make the association. Don’t use treats and rewards – just do it consistently and your dog will make the necessary associations. Opportunistic – your dog quickly learns what brings reward – as motion relieves stress – going in motion is fun and relaxing. You will note in various RC videos that he uses “let’s go”. The distinction here is critical and I bet exactly what you are looking for. Using let’s go, or some phrase you will consistently use, you are announcing/indicating you are going in “travel” mode. Travelling with you does not require the dog to maintain a proper heel. You are taking the sloppy heel and giving it a new name so you can preserve the proper heel when you need it or want it. You control the proximity with the length of the leash. You can make this as technically complicated as you like – but its not necessary in my experience. You simply say “Let’s go” and go. If something arises and you need close proximity – you already trained and reinforced your heel so you are set. A walk may look like this…. Heel – you get through hallways and groups of people – Let’s go – and the dog is free to position where it likes within the limitations of the length of the lead. This translates to off-leash when needed as well.

Regrettably, other than RC’s videos on leave it I am not able to offer any other tips as my K9 is conditioned to only eat what is scented to me.

Hope something helps – you are in a great place – maintain heel to mean heel and use your new gear and no one is frustrated. You have your safety mechanism built in with your tight heel and clarity when your dog is free to have more space. Regards.

[Bill]

Hi @charliesl45yahoo-com – in response to your follow up for clarification on creating hesitancy; while the situational answer is complex – it generally boils down to… you don’t want to create situations/scenarios where the dog may learn that if it waits a bit after you give a command you may likely interrupt it – the dog may start to wonder, “why bother performing immediately when the handler may just stop me anyway” – it becomes an undesirable, a guessing game.