Member Riggan
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Lots of good comments here! First of all, kudos to you for your commitment to Sato. Not many first time dog owners can handle a Mal, but you are in the right place to learn! There are so many things that come into play here. I’ll try to just cover a few I haven’t seen discussed.
One thing I have not seen in this thread is the difference between training and management. Training falls into 2 general categories for me. First is the short sessions done several times a day when you are specifically teaching the dog skills. This is what most people think of when they think about “training.” But to me, the other category is far more important (at least when the dog is young), takes more time and work, and is what I would loosely term “lifestyle” training. This is teaching the dog what is acceptable and unacceptable in terms of behavior – not skill training. Stay off the furniture would be an example of this kind of training. Others might be not jumping on people; don’t take food (or anything else) from counters; don’t steal my socks or underwear from the closet; etc. The list can go on and on! It is the ground rules for how I want my dog to behave and become a good companion.
Behavior training takes place in all those periods when you are not actively “training” the dog (skill training), but you are still able to keep the majority of your attention on the dog and can intervene before unwanted behavior occurs. Initially, it may take 90-100% of your attention. As the dog starts to learn the rules of the household, it will take less and less focus on your part. This obviously only works when the dog is in the same room as you are, and you are able to quickly (and without having to fight for it) gain control over your dog. The focus is on PREVENTING the unwanted behavior rather than on correcting it.
Skill training and behavior training usually go hand in hand. For the sofa, I might do one or two daily short 5-minute sessions where I am TEACHING the dog what I expect around the sofa. In this, I might be sitting on the sofa and put the dog on a down-stay by my feet. Or I might have the dog on leash, walk up to the sofa, and tell him to Sit (or Down or some other command) before he gets close enough to try to jump on it. If you see him eyeing the sofa, or starting to tense his muscles to jump on it, give a quick NO (neutral, never angry!). You might tell him what you DO want him to do, or even better, if he just turns to look at you (surprised at the NO), reward and praise. A key mistake that new trainers make is to wait until the dog has already DONE the behavior (jumped on the sofa) before correcting. Then, as someone mentioned, if you reward after getting him off the sofa, then you are reinforcing the act of getting on the sofa in the first place. If you STOP the behavior when he first thinks about doing it, but has not actually done it, then the reward is a reward for NOT doing what he was going to do. Does that make sense? I would also be teaching both an UP and OFF command, using a bench, platform, or something other than the sofa.
The behavior training happens when you are close by, but not directly interacting with the dog. Your attention, however, is secretly on him. For example, you might be sitting on the sofa reading a book (but secretly watching him as he approaches). Again, as soon as you see him eyeing the sofa or looking like he WANTS to jump on it, firmly tell him OFF. If he diverts his attention, praise profusely. If he does jump on it, calmly reach over (or walk over if you are not on the sofa), pick up the leash, and in a neutral tone, tell him “OFF.” If he gets off, calmly tell him “Good Off” and continue with whatever you were doing. If he does NOT get off, tell him NO, wait a second, then give a pop on the leash (see Robert’s videos on how to give fair corrections) and again tell him OFF. If he still does not get off, your correction was not firm enough. You will have to learn what the right level of correction is for your dog. Do NOT keep repeating the command without a correction! By using the leash, you avoid triggering his play / prey drive and can prevent the biting behavior. It puts you in control. As soon as he gets off, praise but do not give any type of treat. In behavior training, you want to be able to prevent the behavior at least 80% of the time. Otherwise, you risk it becoming a game to the dog to see what he can get away with. The key is that the dog is learning what you expect, even when you are seemingly not paying any attention to him and are active doing other things around the house. But this occurs in tiny steps.
When you cannot give the dog the required attention / supervision, then you use “Management.” Here, you set the dog up for success by putting them in a situation where they CANNOT fail. The crate is a perfect example of management. A dog in a crate can’t get on the sofa. For me, young dogs have to earn their freedom around the house. Although there are frequent breaks and time for engagement, there is also a lot of crate time until they are trustworthy around the house. There are other ways to manage as well. For example, if the dog tends to get in the garbage can, put the garbage in a closet or with a tight fitting lid so they can’t get into it. (I will then later do specific training to TEACH the dog not to take garbage, but removing the can is a way to manage the environment so that he can’t fail and reinforce bad behavior.)
The other thing that stood out to me in your post is that you are “asking” multiple times before escalating to a correction. This just tells the dog (especially one that might have a harder, more dominant personality to begin with) that THEY are the one to be respected, not you. I always have a short leash (without any type of loop on it to get caught on things) on young dogs when they are loose in the house.
Finally, at 6 months old you are entering the teenage period. This is when dogs will constantly be testing their limits. The key is patience, firmness, and consistency. We can give you suggestions here, but you are the only one who can really assess what is going on with your dog. Spend time studying him, learning to “read” his signals so you know what he is thinking and about to do before he does it. Build a relationship of trust and fairness with him. Learn his personality – is he a pushy, dominant dog, or a soft, timid one? You say he is reactive. What is causing that? Is it fear? Aggression? Overexuberance and desire to play? There is nothing more rewarding than developing a true partnership with your dog. The Malinois has been bred to also long for this partnership. Your challenge will be making sure that Sato wants to look to YOU for leadership rather than expecting you to follow his lead. It sounds like you are up to that challenge, though!
Best of luck to you and Sato.
Riggan
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Praying that all goes well and she has a speedy recovery…
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Bless you, Lauren, for the work you do! Sounds like a difficult situation. These dogs are understandably excited to get attention any chance they get. Just going to toss out a few ideas here.
1) Can you require a sit BEFORE the kennel door is opened? If the dog gets up, door is closed. If they are in a sit and then jump up when the person is entering the kennel, the person immediately turns around and leaves for a minute or so. Although I can see that for se dogs, this might backfire due to the frustration build up.
2) Can the excitement be channeled some other way? The dogs may need some form of movement t erase their excitement. Carousel teach them a “spin” cue or something else to more appropriately channel that energy?
3) For some of them, would taking ball on a rope at the dog can immediately grab help redirect their excitement to a more appropriate outlet?
4) Any chance the volunteer could interact with the dog for a few minutes outside the kennel before entering? Ask for some sits and downs, maybe toss a treat to the back of the kennel a few times for the dog to expend some energy. Then, now that the dog has gotten over the initial excitement of the person interacting with them and has at least a slight reminder of obedience, calmly enter the kennel.
5) Similar to separation anxiety, can volunteers be taught to keep ALL interactions between them and the dog in the kennel calm, low-key without feeding the excitement with effusive greetings and high pitched voices promising playtime?
6) Could a staff member get the dog out of the kennel and bring it to the volunteer instead of the volunteer going into the kennel to get the dog? Then the staff member, if necessary, could be the one to do the “step on the leash” routine while the volunteer greets the dog and takes over.
7) For food driven dogs, maybe immediately scatter a handful of treats on the floor to distract the dog when first entering the kennel. Then immediately ask for the sit as the dog is scarfing up the last one.
8) As the trainer, work with the dog on self control and sit from movement by doing Sit from a walk and then a trot and then a full run. Or capping excitement by alternating short tug games and quick obedience sessions. Hopefully this would help the dog learn better self control for when the volunteers are getting them.
None of these are perfect solutions, and a lot probably depends on the specific dog and your setup, but just brainstorming here! Hoping others will have some better ideas. Good luck, and let us know what ends up being effective!
Riggan
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Gary, I just rewatched Robert’s first video with Max (Ultimate Puppy Series) where he worked on “Leave It”. This might be why you asked about whether you should use a choke chain. I couple of things. First of all, I think that Max was a bit older than 3 months, even though he is still a puppy. Second (and even more importantly), Max is an Akita – a big, strong, independent and often stubborn breed. Robert talks about this in the video. Max was on a choke chain. This is an example of a situation where what works with one dog is not appropriate for all dogs. Because of his personality, Max needs a firmer hand and will not be crushed by somewhat harsher techniques. In fact, they are necessary in order to get his attention. But it is not true for the vast majority of puppies out there. This is one reason the Ultimate Puppy Series with Max and Siggie is so great – you can see how Robert changes his approach for a tough dog versus a softer yet high drive dog like Siggie. I agree with Ed that a martingale collar would be most appropriate for a 3-month-old puppy. Have fun with your pup and let us know how it goes!
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I wouldn’t. At that age, training should be almost entirely positive and fun. You are setting the foundation for a lifelong partnership. I would instead use the “light switch” game. I’m pretty sure Robert has a video on it. The focus is on rewarding the dog for what you DO want (looking or moving away from the object) rather than correcting them for what you don’t want.
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James, You ask some excellent questions! (Edit: I just saw Ed’s responses, which are excellent. But here is what I had written before I saw his.)
1) Take the first week or so and just let the pup get used to you and your family. It is fine to let your kids (adult and youth) meet her, but be careful not to overwhelm her. Her primary interactions should be with you (assuming you are going to be her primary caretaker and trainer) and to a lesser extent other household members. People not living in the home with you are a distant third.
2) Yes, the pup can have toys without “earning” them. I would avoid the rope toys unless you are directly supervising her. Dogs can shred the threads and swallow them, causing major digestive issues which can at times be fatal. I would use stuffed Kongs or similar toys to help her settle in the crate. Robert has a video (very entertaining as well as informative!) on YouTube about some ways to stuff a Kong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHxx2P7QMkc
3) Others with more experience with the breed may have a better answer to this one, but I would start feeding the suggested amount on the food. Then monitor her. You should be able to feel her ribs easily, but they should also have a slight layer of fat over them. If her ribs are like a washboard, increase her food. If you have to work to feel them, decrease it. Puppies should be fed at least 3 times a day. Later, you can cut that to 2 or even once a day.
4) In general, I like the crate inside. Not sure when you plan on bringing it in, but otherwise your plan is reasonable.
5) To begin with, she should get out of her crate in order to pee and poop around every 2 hours. You can also play with her and begin doing some simple training using luring. These sessions should be 100% fun for her. You want her to learn that interacting with you is great stuff! So, no corrections, and don’t overdo it. She will also be learning how to learn during these sessions.
There is so much good information on this site that it can be hard to know where to start. I suggest going to the Welcome page and at least going through the lessons on Robert’s method (https://robertcabral.com/welcome/). Then, I would go to the Puppy Training page (https://robertcabral.com/puppy-training/) These are ordered by the date Robert created them, so they are NOT in order of the right sequence when you get a puppy. I would start with the Puppy Foundation Training, the Complete Puppy Lesson, and the one on Crate Training. “Why We Start Our Training Relationship with Food” would also be good. From there, you might want to watch The Puppy Essentials series with Siggy and Max. They have each had 5 lessons so far, and it is great to see Robert working with two such different dogs. It sounds like yours is more on the soft side, so the lessons with Siggy might be the most informative for you, but watch both puppies so you start to understand the different ways to respond. Then just watch whichever ones seem most appropriate for where you are at with your pup or that interest you.
You can always ask the members questions here, and ask Robert using the Ask Me Anything form on the Members page. These get answered usually twice a week when Robert creates a video with all his answers. Enjoy your puppy and congratulations!
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Good reminder to always consider medical / health related issues when there is a behavioral problem! Glad it is resolving.
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Bless you for being willing to give this socially deprived puppy the time and patience needed to give her a chance at a fabulous life! Excellent recommendation from Gerard on starting her in calmer environments. It is a fine line between not over-stimulating her and creating more fear versus coddling her. Try to find that line where she is just a tiny bit challenged but not overwhelmed. This gives her the chance to discover that she CAN handle it. Once she panics (or enters fear / flight mode), though, there is no room for learning.
If you are in calmer environments, you can start working towards loose leash walking and eventual loose heel immediately. I start this work immediately with any puppy. First step is to teach them to orient to you. Say the puppy’s name and as soon as they look at you, run backwards to trigger the chase reaction. As soon as she reaches you, praise effusively and reward. Do this as often as you can until it is an automatic response to hearing her name. (Depending on what you plan to do with the pup, you might want to reward just looking toward you rather than an actual recall and toss the treat to the pup as soon as she looks to you. You can then use “Come” to trigger the recall response. Either way, do it lots!)
At the same time, I also work the puppy on a long line and reward every single time the pup orients towards me even if I have not asked for it. This is reinforcing the puppy for checking in with me. Initially I don’t use any corrections. Then I will start doing a very gentle pop when the puppy puts tension on the long line and reward like crazy as soon as she turns back to me.
I would not expect this of a pup in places where she is not comfortable or with higher levels of distraction until she fully understands the concept in calm places. Even then, I would keep it 99% positive. With Lance (very soft and fearful adopted GSD mix), I used a verbal warning “Far Enough” just before he got to the end of the lead since I wanted to avoid even gentle corrections as much as possible. Plus, I now use that when we are hiking off lead to tell him to not go any further ahead of me. But he has also progressed to understanding that he needs to slow down as soon as he feels even the lightest tension on the leash.
The Ultimate Puppy series is a great set of videos to watch numerous times. It sounds like your pup is even softer than Siggy, so you might need to make some additional adjustments. You’ll want to do everything you can to build her confidence, but it sounds like you have experience doing that.
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Matthew,
Even if Robert does not do a lesson on basic SAR training, there are lots of good resources out there for you. An excellent book is “Search Dog Training” by Sandy Bryson. I have been out of SAR work for many years now, so there are probably equally good newer ones that I am not aware of. If you just want to read books about people involved in SAR, both “So That Others May Live” by Caroline Heber and “Scent of the Missing” by Susannah Charleson are good books.
For the basic training steps to teach a general air scent detection dog (ie, the dog is looking for ANY human scent in the area, not a specific scent):
1) Have someone hold your dog while you tease him. Then run a short distance away while he is watching and hide behind a tree, bush, wall, or whatever else is available. The person holding the dog keeps him excited: “Where’s he going? He’s lost! What’s happening?!?!” kind of chatter. Then the handler releases the dog with the command “Find Him!” (or whatever you want to use). (Note: do NOT put the dog on a “stay” command or hold him using the collar – you WANT him really revved up. Hold him around the chest.). As soon as the dog reaches you, praise him and play his favorite game, usually tug. (Find what works for YOUR dog. My dog was extremely unusual and considered the find itself his main reward. After the find, he did not want to play – he wanted his tennis ball and then to be left alone with it. It took me a long time to realize that my attempts to get him to play with me after the find were actually somewhat aversive from his perspective. What he wanted was praise for a job well done and his ball. It took even longer for the team trainers to realize that he was still an excellent search dog even if he wasn’t interested in playing tug.) Repeat this step until it is clear that the dog understands the game – run and find you. Gradually hide a little further away. The dog will be using purely visual cues at this point, but try to hide upwind of the dog so that the scent cone is there.
2) Switch so that YOU are handling the dog and someone else the dog knows is doing the hiding. The person hiding has the toy and praises the dog until you get there. Once you are there, you take over praising and playing with the dog. Gradually make the distance longer and the hiding spot a bit more difficult, but don’t try to go too fast. You want the dog to “win” every time. The dog is still watching the person hide at this point. Vary the person doing the hiding so that the dog starts to learn that he is not looking for a specific person. (You can also train to locate a specific scent using a scent article from the person, but that gets more complicated.) as the dog catches on, start having people the dog does NOT know do the hiding.
3) Once the dog is eagerly running after the person, begin having the dog watch them run away, but then they go around a corner or something so that the dog cannot see where they are actually hiding. Now the dog is going to have to start making the transition from relying on his eyes to his nose. Be sure the person is hiding upwind so the dog can catch the scent. You can guide the dog to the general area that you want searched, but be very careful that you are not “solving” the problem for the dog. Let him work it out. Especially in the beginning, if he seems confused or is getting frustrated, the person hiding can make a noise, but you want to avoid this where possible. Again, be sure not to go too fast. These are still very short beginner exercises. Depending on the dog, this might take 3-4 sessions to get to this point or if might take weeks of work. Go at your dog’s pace.
4) At this point, you can start teaching the dog that the REAL reward comes when YOU get to the person, not when he does. Have the person who is hiding praise the dog and then be still and unresponsive. As soon as YOU get to the person, praise lavishly and play. Now the dog should really be catching onto the game and finding it the most fun, exciting activity you do with him.
5) Now you and your dog should be ready to really change the picture. Have the person hide while the dog is NOT able to see him leave. Make the hiding spot an easy one to start with since you have made it much more difficult for the dog when he can’t see the person leave. He is going to have to rely primarily on his nose now.) Give him a few minutes to hide and let the scent cone develop. Now take your dog to wherever you are going to start him. Be sure it is downwind of the “victim.” Go through the same excited buildup that you have been doing. “Someone is lost! He needs help! Are you ready?” It can also help if you have used special equipment such as a vest that the dog associates with this exciting new game. When the dog is straining to go, release him with your Find command. (When holding the dog, hold him around the chest, not using a leash. You don’t want him to be corrected for his eagerness to get to work.) As always, praise and play when he reaches the person.
6) Gradually increase the distance and area in which the person may be hiding. As you progress to more difficult problems, it can help if you do not know where the person is hiding (other than the general area to be searched) so you cannot inadvertently help your dog cheat.
7) The next step is often the hardest and is beyond the scope of this post: to teach the Refind. After finding the person, the dog keeps going between you to lead you to the person. The game is not over until YOU find the person. Depending on how far your dog ranges while searching, this might take a while. My SAR dog ranged far ahead of me and I am not fast, so he still had a lot of work to do after he found the person. Other SAR dogs I know worked pretty close to their handler so it was not hard for them to get the handler to the victim.
There is so much more to search work than just this, so if you are truly interested, the best way to proceed is to hook up with a qualified search group that conducts regular training sessions. I found training the dog to be the easiest part (it helped that my dog was a natural and picked up the game almost immediately). Learning the navigation, communication, scent behavior, first aid (both human and canine), incident management, and all the other skills necessary to be an effective SAR team member took a lot longer. Agility training is also extremely useful (and imperative if you get into disaster search work), but the emphasis is on control and carefulness rather than speed.
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Cory and Lisa,
I am so happy to hear that you now have a lovely pup that you are enjoying and making prgress with after the terrible experience you had with your first pup. Sadly, not all problems can be overcome. But it sounds like you now have a dog who will be a lifetime source of joy and will keep you on your toes! Congratulations!
Riggan